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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:24 pm
I'm not sure where to put this thread, but this looked like a good starting point. Let me introduce myself. I'm Mike Clemens. In 1972 I bought a Wurlitzer TPO and had it installed in the attic of my house. It has since been relocated to the Strand Capitol Performing Arts Center in York PA. After dedicateing years of my life to TPO hobby, I was out of it for 10 years or so, but now I'm getting the itch again to 'fool around'.
I have a nice little Marr&Colton 2 manual console in storage that i've kept for 25 years or so, and now I think I found a good use for it. I'm going to build a virtual TPO. I'm not sure if I'll let it at 2 manuals, or convert it to 3. Depends how much woodworking is involved.
I'm also not sure what software I'll choose. I like Miditzer because of its low cost. I do have a few preliminary questions.
I plan to use a multi-channel sound system. I have 10 sets of Conn speaker pipes which I'll use along with some othe full-range speakers and some giant subs. My first question is:
Does the Miditzer support more than two channel audio cards, such as the M-audio Delta 1010LT 8 channel + midi sound card? I want to use at least 8 channels.
The console right now is a shell with stop tabs and keyboards. I need everything else.. midi interface, PC and monitor (i'm thinking 21" ELO wide screen touch monitor) and sound system.
I'm also looking at Hauptwerk, but that is a MUCH more expensive solution. Any advice would be much appreciated.
btw. I'll have pics in about 30 days.
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:19 pm
First, MidiTzer supports 2 audio channels. Depending on how much time and effort as well as how much knowledge you have, there are many virtual organ software "packages". The MIDI encoder/software of choice for many on this web site is for the most part MidiBox. (do a Search). There are many posts with questions and solutions to programming issues. Most agree you should have some prior computer skills altho there are many to help here at any level. In addition, there are various ready made to install MIDI encoder/systems which include built in software.
For myself, I found building my own was both economical and easier over all. Rodgers 340 Makeover Presently, I am using for the audio card, M-Audio 1010LT which gives me 10 audio channels for use with other virtual organs. In addition, I'm using 2 touch screens as well as thumb and toe pistons for registration changes.
A variation of using the (basic) MidiTzer programs as the organ relay can be found here: VTPO : VTPO Yahoo. More advanced (in some respects) are these variations by incorporating selectable soundfonts, based on a program by Tascam - (GigaStudio Orchestra 3.0). BTW, this substitution of ranks can also be done with MidiTzer itself.
There are several of us who are avid fans of MidiTzer and also have Hauptwerk as well as the customizable [jOrgan] Introduction (Java based), which like MidiTzer (216), is freeware.
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:01 pm
engrssc wrote: First, MidiTzer supports 2 audio channels.
Conceptually, MidiTzer has no knowlege of audio channels. That is a function of the sound generator in use (but you knew that already... )
Fluidsynth (the default sound generator for MidiTzer) supports 2 audio channels. If you re-configure MidiTzer to use a different sound generator(s) you could have many more audio channels. Some have used multiple SoundBlaster cards to support more than 2 channels, some have used external synthesizers/sample players, etc. Some have used GigaStudio as Ed mentions.
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:45 am
Thanks for the clarification, John. I referred to native MidiTzer as the basic, unmodified version using Fluidsynth which most first time users identify with when they first download MidiTzer. There are many modifications that can be implemented.
You may want to check out these two discussions:
Miditzer Forum: multiple sound cards
Miditzer Forum: A complex project?
Someone recently referred to MidiTzer as a virtual Swiss Army knife so take it from there.
Ed engrssc2008-03-22 07:40:13
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:50 am
Thanks guys for the info. btw. I am proficient with PC hardware and software.
Hauptwerk recommends a MAC, but I'm not familiar with them. Do you know how it runs on a fast PC?
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:11 pm
I'm using a fast P 4 with the 3 GB switch. Works great with the exception that a few samples have to be mono (pedals) and a few other shortcuts on the larger organs to make them fit into the RAM. MAC is better here. Over all, no problems with latency, polyphony or any other nasties. But since this is the MidiTzer Forum, will limit my comments to that. If you want further, PM or email me privately and I will be happy to answer any ?? you may have.
That said, don't underestimate the power of MidiTzer and what it can all do - and it keeps getting better.
Re: multi channel sound cards
Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:36 pm
Hi Ed -- I have a couple of questions about soundcards for Miditzer. I am still very much in the planning stage of my more "finished" project, which (I think) is outlined a little bit in the "Show Us Your Miditzer" thread.
To recap, I am aiming for a 3-m instrument driven from an Allen console. I have 4 Allen amps and speakers; thus I anticiapte a two-chamber, double-stereo arrangement (Main in stereo, Solo in stereo) as a starting point.
My questions are three:
1. Could this set-up be achieved with one SoundBlaster X-Fi Extreme Audio card, or will I need two?
2. How does polyphony factor in here?
3. Do you consider the M-Audio 1010LT a better investment with plenty of audio options? If so, am I correct that I need a powerful synth engine such as GigaStudio to drive it?
Re: multi channel sound cards
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:08 pm
Mike, couldn't figure how to send a PM, so will respond here, wondering how your project turned out. I have been away from my organ project for years (almost a decade) but seeking to return, and although there are other systems, hardly find better software than MidiTzer.
I have influenced many to download this to discover their creative side of life and none were ever disappointed.
As you have discovered in playing a pipe organ, I advocate multi channel sound systems, playing my system through 16 speaker cabs powered by SoundBlaster soundcards for an awesome sound! I wrote a lengthy tutorial on the process just as Win XP became obsolete. I bought a new (back then) Win 7 and two Delta 1010LT soundcards but set it on the shelf and stepped away from serious organ.
As I seem to be returning to the organ world, I cannot get the Deltas to work (sadly), but have several XPs with multiple slots for SoundBlasters and got several of them up and running again.
Who cares how old they are - When I strip all the other apps and programs away, they are now dedicated MidiTzer organs. I myself am not as young as I used to be, but my body parts work extremely well!
I have sold many locals on the merits of the awesome MidiTzer. Although it is not "open architecture" (not designed to create a new organ from the ground up); there are other platforms for those who are so inclined. jOrgan is having a rough ride now that I need it, but MidiTzer is perfect to configure the sounds of the 20 rank 3 manual 260 Wurli (or its smaller cousin the 216) and that in itself is a satisfying project.
What makes it great is my friends who aren't into computer-ese or organ-ese can download the software and plug in a MIDI keyboard and begin to use its full features immediately, using the fluidsynth right there.
However, its features are expandable to modify the system simply at the settings screen:
In addition to simply plugging any MIDI organ with a MIDI OUT into MIDITZER and assigning the MIDI manuals (in the clavier settings), any MIDI keyboards and pedals (as well as any MIDI signals such as stoptab triggers) can be plugged into it. People can use Teensy or MidiBox to create their own signals and tell MidiTzer what to do with them - some folks even take an existing MIDI keyboard apart and rewire it to MIDIfy their analog pedals for a suitable send to the MidiTzer.
The _volume_ and _pan_ position placement of each individual rank of the MidiTzer can be altered simply on the output setting screen, as well as placement to a variety of different soundcards.
In addition, although the default fluidsynth soundfont that comes installed with the download is stereo, MidiTzer is not limited to the adventuresome willing to create multiple outputs with soundcards to power a dozen separate speaker amps and the individual ranks placed according to your preference (since my tutorial was too large to post, I shared some of this without graphics on my website) simply by assignment in the "output settings" with no computer knowledge needed to pull it off . . . and for the ambitious, different soundfonts can actually be swapped on the system (although the screen graphix cannot be altered to reflect those changes). If you prefer a Morton string to Wurli, you can swap out that soundfont, or replace the piano with a harpsichord, etc.
I'd better stop before they bounce me off the list for exceeding bandwidth or men in little white coats carry me off.
Way back on Fri Mar 21, 2008 MikeC wrote:
I'm not sure where to put this thread, but this looked like a good starting point.
Let me introduce myself. I'm Mike Clemens. In 1972 I bought a Wurlitzer TPO and had it installed in the attic of my house. It has since been relocated to the Strand Capitol Performing Arts Center in York PA. After dedicating years of my life to TPO hobby, I was out of it for 10 years or so, but now I'm getting the itch again to 'fool around'.
I have a nice little Marr&Colton 2 manual console in storage that I've kept for 25 years or so, and now I think I found a good use for it. I'm going to build a virtual TPO. . . . not sure what software I'll choose. I like Miditzer . . . I do have a few preliminary questions.
I plan to use a multi-channel sound system. I have 10 sets of Conn speaker pipes which I'll use along with some of the full-range speakers and some giant subs. My first question is: Does the Miditzer support more than two channel audio cards, such as the M-audio Delta 1010LT 8 channel + midi sound card? I want to use at least 8 channels. The console right now is a shell with stop tabs and keyboards. I need everything else. midi interface, PC and monitor (i'm thinking 21" ELO wide screen touch monitor) and sound system.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
btw. I'll have pics in about 30 days.